Ath。Andwhatwouldyousayofsomeonewhoblamesorpraisesanysortofmeetingwhichisintendedbynaturetohavearuler，andiswellenoughwhenunderhispresidency？Thecritic，however，hasneverseenthesocietymeetingtogetheratanorderlyfeastunderthecontrolofapresident，butalwayswithoutarulerorwithabadone：-whenobserversofthisclasspraiseorblamesuchmeetings，arewetosupposethatwhattheysayisofanyvalue？
　　Meg。Certainlynot，iftheyhaveneverseenorbeenpresentatsuchameetingwhenrightlyordered。
　　Ath。Reflect；maynotbanquetersandbanquetsbesaidtoconstituteakindofmeeting？
　　Meg。Ofcourse。
　　Ath。Anddidanyoneeverseethissortofconvivialmeetingrightlyordered？Ofcourseyoutwowillanswerthatyouhaveneverseenthematall，becausetheyarenotcustomaryorlawfulinyourcountry；
　　butIhavecomeacrossmanyoftheminmanydifferentplaces，andmoreoverIhavemadeenquiriesaboutthemwhereverIwent，asImaysay，andneverdidIseeorhearofanythingofthekindwhichwascarriedonaltogetherrightly；insomefewparticularstheymightberight，butingeneraltheywereutterlywrong。
　　Cle。Whatdoyoumean，Stranger，bythisremark？Explain；Forwe，asyousay，fromourinexperienceinsuchmatters，mightverylikelynotknow，eveniftheycameinourway，whatwasrightorwronginsuchsocieties。
　　Ath。Likelyenough；thenletmetrytobeyourinstructor：Youwouldacknowledge，wouldyounot，thatinallgatheringsofman，kind，ofwhateversort，thereoughttobealeader？
　　Cle。CertainlyIshould。
　　Ath。Andweweresayingjustnow，thatwhenmenareatwartheleaderoughttobeabraveman？
　　Cle。Wewere。
　　Ath。Thebravemanislesslikelythanthecowardtobedisturbedbyfears？
　　Cle。Thatagainistrue。
　　Ath。Andiftherewereapossibilityofhavingageneralofanarmywhowasabsolutelyfearlessandimperturbable，shouldwenotbyallmeansappointhim？
　　Cle。Assuredly。
　　Ath。Now，however，wearespeakingnotofageneralwhoistocommandanarmy，whenfoemeetsfoeintimeofwar，butofonewhoistoregulatemeetingsofanothersort，whenfriendmeetsfriendintimeofpeace。
　　Cle。True。
　　Ath。Andthatsortofmeeting，ifattendedwithdrunkenness，isapttobeunquiet。
　　Cle。Certainly；thereverseofquiet。
　　Ath。Inthefirstplace，then，therevellersaswellasthesoldierswillrequirearuler？
　　Cle。Tobesure；nomenmoreso。
　　Ath。Andweought，ifpossible，toprovidethemwithaquietruler？
　　Cle。Ofcourse。
　　Ath。Andheshouldbeamanwhounderstandssociety；forhisdutyistopreservethefriendlyfeelingswhichexistamongthecompanyatthetime，andtoincreasethemforthefuturebyhisuseoftheoccasion。
　　Cle。Verytrue。
　　Ath。Mustwenotappointasobermanandawisetobeourmasteroftherevels？Foriftherulerofdrinkersbehimselfyounganddrunken，andnotover-wise，onlybysomespecialgoodfortunewillhebesavedfromdoingsomegreatevil。
　　Cle。Itwillbebyasingulargoodfortunethatheissaved。
　　Ath。Nowsupposesuchassociationstobeframedinthebestwaypossibleinstates，andthatsomeoneblamestheveryfactoftheirexistence-hemayverylikelyberight。Butifheblamesapracticewhichheonlyseesverymuchmismanaged，heshowsinthefirstplacethatheisnotawareofthemismanagement，andalsonotawarethateverythingdoneinthiswaywillturnouttobewrong，becausedonewithoutthesuperintendenceofasoberruler。Doyounotseethatadrunkenpilotoradrunkenrulerofanysortwillruinship，chariot，army-anything，inshort，ofwhichhehasthedirection？
　　Cle。Thelastremarkisverytrue，Stranger；andIseequiteclearlytheadvantageofanarmyhavingagoodleader-hewillgivevictoryinwartohisfollowers，whichisaverygreatadvantage；andsoofotherthings。ButIdonotseeanysimilaradvantagewhicheitherindividualsorstatesgainfromthegoodmanagementofafeast；andIwantyoutotellmewhatgreatgoodwillbeeffected，supposingthatthisdrinkingordinanceisdulyestablished。
　　Ath。Ifyoumeantoaskwhatgreatgoodaccruestothestatefromtherighttrainingofasingleyouth，orofasinglechorus-whenthequestionisputinthatform，wecannotdenythatthegoodisnotverygreatinanyparticularinstance。Butifyouaskwhatisthegoodofeducationingeneral，theansweriseasy-thateducationmakesgoodmen，andthatgoodmenactnobly，andconquertheirenemiesinbattle，becausetheyaregood。Educationcertainlygivesvictory，althoughvictorysometimesproducesforgetfulnessofeducation；formanyhavegrowninsolentfromvictoryinwar，andthisinsolencehasengenderedintheminnumerableevils；andmanyavictoryhasbeenandwillbesuicidaltothevictors；buteducationisneversuicidal。
　　Cle。Youseemtoimply，myfriend，thatconvivialmeetings，whenrightlyordered，areanimportantelementofeducation。
　　Ath。CertainlyIdo。
　　Cle。Andcanyoushowthatwhatyouhavebeensayingistrue？
　　Ath。Tobeabsolutelysureofthetruthofmattersconcerningwhichtherearemanyopinions，isanattributeoftheGodsnotgiventoman，Stranger；butIshallbeveryhappytotellyouwhatI
　　think，especiallyaswearenowproposingtoenteronadiscussionconcerninglawsandconstitutions。
　　Cle。Youropinion，Stranger，aboutthequestionswhicharenowbeingraised，ispreciselywhatwewanttohear。
　　Ath。Verygood；Iwilltrytofindawayofexplainingmymeaning，andyoushalltrytohavethegiftofunderstandingme。Butfirstletmemakeanapology。TheAtheniancitizenisreputedamongalltheHellenestobeagreattalker，whereasSpartaisrenownedforbrevity，andtheCretanshavemorewitthanwords。NowIamafraidofappearingtoelicitaverylongdiscourseoutofverysmallmaterials。Fordrinkingindeedmayappeartobeaslightmatter，andyetisonewhichcannotberightlyorderedaccordingtonature，withoutcorrectprinciplesofmusic；thesearenecessarytoanyclearorsatisfactorytreatmentofthesubject，andmusicagainrunsupintoeducationgenerally，andthereismuchtobesaidaboutallthis。Whatwouldyousaythentoleavingthesemattersforthepresent，andpassingontosomeotherquestionoflaw？
　　Meg。OAthenianStranger，letmetellyouwhatperhapsyoudonotknow，thatourfamilyistheproxenusofyourstate。Iimaginethatfromtheirearliestyouthallboys，whentheyaretoldthattheyaretheproxeniofaparticularstate，feelkindlytowardstheirsecondandthishascertainlybeenmyownfeeling。Icanwellrememberfromthedaysofmyboyhood，how，whenanyLacedaemonianspraisedorblamedtheAthenians，theyusedtosaytome-“See，Megillus，howillorhowwell，“asthecasemightbe，“hasyourstatetreatedus“；andhavingalwayshadtofightyourbattlesagainstdetractorswhenIheardyouassailed，Ibecamewarmlyattachedtoyou。AndIalwaysliketoheartheAtheniantonguespoken；thecommonsayingisquitetrue，thatagoodAthenianismorethanordinarilygood，forheistheonlymanwhoisfreelyandgenuinelygoodbythedivineinspirationofhisownnature，andisnotmanufactured。ThereforebeassuredthatIshallliketohearyousaywhateveryouhavetosay。
　　Cle。Yes，Stranger；andwhenyouhaveheardmespeak，sayboldlywhatisinyourthoughts。LetmeremindyouofatiewhichunitesyoutoCrete。YoumusthaveheardherethestoryoftheprophetEpimenides，whowasofmyfamily，andcametoAthenstenyearsbeforethePersianwar，inaccordancewiththeresponseoftheOracle，andofferedcertainsacrificeswhichtheGodcommanded。TheAthenianswereatthattimeindreadofthePersianinvasion；andhesaidthatfortenyearstheywouldnotcome，andthatwhentheycame，theywouldgoawayagainwithoutaccomplishinganyoftheirobjects，andwouldsuffermoreevilthantheyinflicted。Atthattimemyforefathersformedtiesofhospitalitywithyou；thusancientisthefriendshipwhichIandmyparentshavehadforyou。
　　Ath。Youseemtobequitereadytolisten；andIamalsoreadytoperformasmuchasIcanofanalmostimpossibletask，whichIwillneverthelessattempt。Attheoutsetofthediscussion，letmedefinethenatureandpowerofeducation；forthisisthewaybywhichourargumentmusttravelonwardstotheGodDionysus。
　　Cle。Letusproceed，ifyouplease。
　　Ath。Well，then，ifItellyouwhataremynotionsofeducation，willyouconsiderwhethertheysatisfyyou？
　　Cle。Letushear。
　　Ath。Accordingtomyview，anyonewhowouldbegoodatanythingmustpractisethatthingfromhisyouthupwards，bothinsportandearnest，initsseveralbranches：forexample，hewhoistobeagoodbuilder，shouldplayatbuildingchildren’shouses；hewhoistobeagoodhusbandman，attillingtheground；andthosewhohavethecareoftheireducationshouldprovidethemwhenyoungwithmimictools。Theyshouldlearnbeforehandtheknowledgewhichtheywillafterwardsrequirefortheirart。Forexample，thefuturecarpentershouldlearntomeasureorapplythelineinplay；andthefuturewarriorshouldlearnriding，orsomeotherexercise，foramusement，andtheteachershouldendeavourtodirectthechildren’sinclinationsandpleasures，bythehelpofamusements，totheirfinalaiminlife。Themostimportantpartofeducationisrighttraininginthenursery。Thesoulofthechildinhisplayshouldbeguidedtotheloveofthatsortofexcellenceinwhichwhenhegrowsuptomanhoodhewillhavetobeperfected。Doyouagreewithmethusfar？
　　Cle。Certainly。