首页 >出版文学> PARMENIDES>第5章

第5章

  Impossible。
  Butthen,thatwhichcontainsmustbeotherthanthatwhichiscontained?forthesamewholecannotdoandsufferbothatonce;andifso,onewillbenolongerone,buttwo?
  True。
  Thenonecannotbeanywhere,eitherinitselforinanother?
  No。
  Furtherconsider,whetherthatwhichisofsuchanaturecanhaveeitherrestormotion。
  Whynot?
  Why,becausetheone,ifitweremoved,wouldbeeithermovedinplaceorchangedinnature;forthesearetheonlykindsofmotion。
  Yes。
  Andtheone,whenitchangesandceasestobeitself,cannotbeanylongerone。
  Itcannot。
  Itcannotthereforeexperiencethesortofmotionwhichischangeofnature?
  Clearlynot。
  Thencanthemotionoftheonebeinplace?
  Perhaps。
  Butiftheonemovedinplace,mustitnoteithermoveroundandroundinthesameplace,orfromoneplacetoanother?
  Itmust。
  Andthatwhichmovesinacirclemustrestuponacentre;andthatwhichgoesrounduponacentremusthavepartswhicharedifferentfromthecentre;butthatwhichhasnocentreandnopartscannotpossiblybecarriedrounduponacentre?
  Impossible。
  Butperhapsthemotionoftheoneconsistsinchangeofplace?
  Perhapsso,ifitmovesatall。
  Andhavewenotalreadyshownthatitcannotbeinanything?
  Yes。
  Thenitscomingintobeinginanythingisstillmoreimpossible;
  isitnot?
  Idonotseewhy。
  Why,becauseanythingwhichcomesintobeinginanything,canneitherasyetbeinthatotherthingwhilestillcomingintobeing,norbealtogetheroutofit,ifalreadycomingintobeinginit。
  Certainlynot。
  Andthereforewhatevercomesintobeinginanothermusthaveparts,andthenonepartmaybein,andanotherpartoutofthatother;butthatwhichhasnopartscanneverbeatoneandthesametimeneitherwhollywithinnorwhollywithoutanything。
  True。
  Andistherenotastillgreaterimpossibilityinthatwhichhasnoparts,andisnotawhole,comingintobeinganywhere,sinceitcannotcomeintobeingeitherasapartorasawhole?
  Clearly。
  Thenitdoesnotchangeplacebyrevolvinginthesamespot,notbygoingsomewhereandcomingintobeinginsomething;noragain,bychangeinitself?
  Verytrue。
  Theninrespectofanykindofmotiontheoneisimmoveable?
  Immoveable。
  Butneithercantheonebeinanything,asweaffirm。
  Yes,wesaidso。
  Thenitisneverinthesame?
  Whynot?
  Becauseifitwereinthesameitwouldbeinsomething。
  Certainly。
  Andwesaidthatitcouldnotbeinitself,andcouldnotbeinother?
  True。
  Thenoneisneverinthesameplace?
  Itwouldseemnot。
  Butthatwhichisneverinthesameplaceisneverquietoratrest?
  Never。
  Onethen,aswouldseem,isneitherrestnorinmotion?
  Itcertainlyappearsso。
  Neitherwillitbethesamewithitselforother;noragain,otherthanitselforother。
  Howisthat?
  Ifotherthanitselfitwouldbeotherthanone,andwouldnotbeone。
  True。
  Andifthesamewithother,itwouldbethatother,andnotitself;sothatuponthissuppositiontoo,itwouldnothavethenatureofone,butwouldbeotherthanone?
  Itwould。
  Thenitwillnotbethesamewithother,orotherthanitself?
  Itwillnot。
  Neitherwillitbeotherthanother,whileitremainsone;fornotone,butonlyother,canbeotherthanother,andnothingelse。
  True。
  Thennotbyvirtueofbeingonewillitbeother?
  Certainlynot。
  Butifnotbyvirtueofbeingone,notbyvirtueofitself;andifnotbyvirtueofitself,notitself,anditselfnotbeingotheratall,willnotbeotherthananything?
  Right。
  Neitherwillonebethesamewithitself。
  Hownot?
  Surelythenatureoftheoneisnotthenatureofthesame。
  Whynot?
  Itisnotwhenanythingbecomesthesamewithanythingthatitbecomesone。
  Whatofthat?
  Anythingwhichbecomesthesamewiththemany,necessarilybecomesmanyandnotone。
  True。
  But,iftherewerenodifferencebetweentheoneandthesame,whenathingbecamethesame,itwouldalwaysbecomeone;andwhenitbecameone,thesame?
  Certainly。
  And,therefore,ifonebethesamewithitself,itisnotonewithitself,andwillthereforebeoneandalsonotone。
  Surelythatisimpossible。
  Andthereforetheonecanneitherbeotherthanother,northesamewithitself。
  Impossible。
  Andthustheonecanneitherbethesame,norother,eitherinrelationtoitselforother?
  No。
  Neitherwilltheonebelikeanythingorunlikeitselforother。
  Whynot?
  Becauselikenessissamenessofaffections。
  Yes。
  Andsamenesshasbeenshowntobeofanaturedistinctfromoneness?
  Thathasbeenshown。
  Butiftheonehadanyotheraffectionthanthatofbeingone,itwouldbeaffectedinsuchawayastobemorethanone;whichisimpossible。
  True。
  Thentheonecanneverbesoaffectedastobethesameeitherwithanotherorwithitself?
  Clearlynot。
  Thenitcannotbelikeanother,orlikeitself?
  No。
  Norcanitbeaffectedsoastobeother,forthenitwouldbeaffectedinsuchawayastobemorethanone。
  Itwould。
  Thatwhichisaffectedotherwisethanitselforanother,willbeunlikeitselforanother,forsamenessofaffectionsislikeness。
  True。
  Buttheone,asappears,neverbeingaffectedotherwise,isneverunlikeitselforother?
  Never。
  Thentheonewillneverbeeitherlikeorunlikeitselforother?
  Plainlynot。
  Again,beingofthisnature,itcanneitherbeequalnorunequaleithertoitselfortoother。
  Howisthat?
  Why,becausetheoneifequalmustbeofthesamemeasuresasthattowhichitisequal。
  True。
  Andifgreaterorlessthanthingswhicharecommensurablewithit,theonewillhavemoremeasuresthanthatwhichisless,andfewerthanthatwhichisgreater?
  Yes。
  Andsoofthingswhicharenotcommensuratewithit,theonewillhavegreatermeasuresthanthatwhichislessandsmallerthanthatwhichisgreater。
  Certainly。
  Buthowcanthatwhichdoesnotpartakeofsameness,haveeitherthesamemeasuresorhaveanythingelsethesame?
  Impossible。
  Andnothavingthesamemeasures,theonecannotbeequaleitherwithitselforwithanother?
  Itappearsso。
  Butagain,whetherithavefewerormoremeasures,itwillhaveasmanypartsasithasmeasures;andthusagaintheonewillbenolongeronebutwillhaveasmanypartsasmeasures。
  Right。
  Andifitwereofonemeasure,itwouldbeequaltothatmeasure;
  yetithasbeenshowntobeincapableofequality。