Andthereisanotherclassofservants,whoareintellectuallyhardlyonthelevelofcompanionship;stilltheyhaveplentyofbodilystrengthforlabour,whichaccordinglytheysell,andarecalled,ifI
donotmistake,hirelings,hirebeingthenamewhichisgiventothepriceoftheirlabour。
True。
Thenhirelingswillhelptomakeupourpopulation?
Yes。
Andnow,Adeimantus,isourStatematuredandperfected?
Ithinkso。
Where,then,isjustice,andwhereisinjustice,andinwhatpartoftheStatedidtheyspringup?
Probablyinthedealingsofthesecitizenswithoneanother。
cannotimaginethattheyaremorelikelytobefoundanywhereelse。
Idaresaythatyouarerightinyoursuggestion,Isaid;wehadbetterthinkthematterout,andnotshrinkfromtheenquiry。
Letusthenconsider,firstofall,whatwillbetheirwayoflife,nowthatwehavethusestablishedthem。Willtheynotproducecorn,andwine,andclothes,andshoes,andbuildhousesforthemselves?Andwhentheyarehoused,theywillwork,insummer,commonly,strippedandbarefoot,butinwintersubstantiallyclothedandshod。Theywillfeedonbarley—mealandflourofwheat,bakingandkneadingthem,makingnoblecakesandloaves;thesetheywillserveuponamatofreedsoroncleanleaves,themselvesrecliningthewhileuponbedsstrewnwithyewormyrtle。Andtheyandtheirchildrenwillfeast,drinkingofthewinewhichtheyhavemade,wearinggarlandsontheirheads,andhymningthepraisesofthegods,inhappyconversewithoneanother。Andtheywilltakecarethattheirfamiliesdonotexceedtheirmeans;havinganeyetopovertyorwar。
SOCRATES—GLAUCON
But,saidGlaucon,interposing,youhavenotgiventhemarelishtotheirmeal。
True,Ireplied,Ihadforgotten;ofcoursetheymusthavearelish—salt,andolives,andcheese,andtheywillboilrootsandherbssuchascountrypeopleprepare;foradessertweshallgivethemfigs,andpeas,andbeans;andtheywillroastmyrtle—berriesandacornsatthefire,drinkinginmoderation。Andwithsuchadiettheymaybeexpectedtoliveinpeaceandhealthtoagoodoldage,andbequeathasimilarlifetotheirchildrenafterthem。
Yes,Socrates,hesaid,andifyouwereprovidingforacityofpigs,howelsewouldyoufeedthebeasts?
Butwhatwouldyouhave,Glaucon?Ireplied。
Why,hesaid,youshouldgivethemtheordinaryconveniencesoflife。Peoplewhoaretobecomfortableareaccustomedtolieonsofas,anddineofftables,andtheyshouldhavesaucesandsweetsinthemodernstyle。
Yes,Isaid,nowIunderstand:thequestionwhichyouwouldhavemeconsideris,notonlyhowaState,buthowaluxuriousStateiscreated;andpossiblythereisnoharminthis,forinsuchaStateweshallbemorelikelytoseehowjusticeandinjusticeoriginate。InmyopinionthetrueandhealthyconstitutionoftheStateistheonewhichIhavedescribed。ButifyouwishalsotoseeaStateatfeverheat,Ihavenoobjection。ForIsuspectthatmanywillnotbesatisfiedwiththesimplerwayofwayTheywillbeforaddingsofas,andtables,andotherfurniture;alsodainties,andperfumes,andincense,andcourtesans,andcakes,allthesenotofonesortonly,butineveryvariety;wemustgobeyondthenecessariesofwhichIwasatfirstspeaking,suchashouses,andclothes,andshoes:theartsofthepainterandtheembroidererwillhavetobesetinmotion,andgoldandivoryandallsortsofmaterialsmustbeprocured。
True,hesaid。
Thenwemustenlargeourborders;fortheoriginalhealthyStateisnolongersufficient。Nowwillthecityhavetofillandswellwithamultitudeofcallingswhicharenotrequiredbyanynaturalwant;
suchasthewholetribeofhuntersandactors,ofwhomonelargeclasshavetodowithformsandcolours;anotherwillbethevotariesofmusic——poetsandtheirattendanttrainofrhapsodists,players,dancers,contractors;alsomakersofdiverskindsofarticles,includingwomen’sdresses。Andweshallwantmoreservants。Willnottutorsbealsoinrequest,andnurseswetanddry,tirewomenandbarbers,aswellasconfectionersandcooks;andswineherds,too,whowerenotneededandthereforehadnoplaceintheformereditionofourState,butareneedednow?Theymustnotbeforgotten:andtherewillbeanimalsofmanyotherkinds,ifpeopleeatthem。
Certainly。
Andlivinginthiswayweshallhavemuchgreaterneedofphysiciansthanbefore?
Muchgreater。
Andthecountrywhichwasenoughtosupporttheoriginalinhabitantswillbetoosmallnow,andnotenough?
Quitetrue。
Thenasliceofourneighbours’landwillbewantedbyusforpastureandtillage,andtheywillwantasliceofours,if,likeourselves,theyexceedthelimitofnecessity,andgivethemselvesuptotheunlimitedaccumulationofwealth?
That,Socrates,willbeinevitable。
Andsoweshallgotowar,Glaucon。Shallwenot?
Mostcertainly,hereplied。
Thenwithoutdeterminingasyetwhetherwardoesgoodorharm,thusmuchwemayaffirm,thatnowwehavediscoveredwartobederivedfromcauseswhicharealsothecausesofalmostalltheevilsinStates,privateaswellaspublic。
Undoubtedly。
AndourStatemustoncemoreenlarge;andthistimethewillbenothingshortofawholearmy,whichwillhavetogooutandfightwiththeinvadersforallthatwehave,aswellasforthethingsandpersonswhomweweredescribingabove。
Why?hesaid;aretheynotcapableofdefendingthemselves?
No,Isaid;notifwewererightintheprinciplewhichwasacknowledgedbyallofuswhenwewereframingtheState:theprinciple,asyouwillremember,wasthatonemancannotpractisemanyartswithsuccess。
Verytrue,hesaid。
Butisnotwaranart?
Certainly。
Andanartrequiringasmuchattentionasshoemaking?
Quitetrue。
Andtheshoemakerwasnotallowedbyustobehusbandman,oraweaver,abuilder——inorderthatwemighthaveourshoeswellmade;
buttohimandtoeveryotherworkerwasassignedoneworkforwhichhewasbynaturefitted,andatthathewastocontinueworkingallhislifelongandatnoother;hewasnottoletopportunitiesslip,andthenhewouldbecomeagoodworkman。Nownothingcanbemoreimportantthanthattheworkofasoldiershouldbewelldone。Butiswaranartsoeasilyacquiredthatamanmaybeawarriorwhoisalsoahusbandman,orshoemaker,orotherartisan;althoughnooneintheworldwouldbeagooddiceordraughtplayerwhomerelytookupthegameasarecreation,andhadnotfromhisearliestyearsdevotedhimselftothisandnothingelse?
Notoolswillmakeamanaskilledworkman,ormasterofdefence,norbeofanyusetohimwhohasnotlearnedhowtohandlethem,andhasneverbestowedanyattentionuponthem。Howthenwillhewhotakesupashieldorotherimplementofwarbecomeagoodfighterallinaday,whetherwithheavy—armedoranyotherkindoftroops?
Yes,hesaid,thetoolswhichwouldteachmentheirownusewouldbebeyondprice。
Andthehigherthedutiesoftheguardian,Isaid,themoretime,andskill,andart,andapplicationwillbeneededbyhim?
Nodoubt,hereplied。
Willhenotalsorequirenaturalaptitudeforhiscalling?
Certainly。
Thenitwillbeourdutytoselect,ifwecan,natureswhicharefittedforthetaskofguardingthecity?
Itwill。
Andtheselectionwillbenoeasymatter,Isaid;butwemustbebraveanddoourbest。
Wemust。
Isnotthenobleyouthverylikeawell—breddoginrespectofguardingandwatching?
Whatdoyoumean?
Imeanthatbothofthemoughttobequicktosee,andswifttoovertaketheenemywhentheyseehim;andstrongtooif,whentheyhavecaughthim,theyhavetofightwithhim。
Allthesequalities,hereplied,willcertainlyberequiredbythem。
Well,andyourguardianmustbebraveifheistofightwell?
Certainly。
Andishelikelytobebravewhohasnospirit,whetherhorseordogoranyotheranimal?Haveyouneverobservedhowinvincibleandunconquerableisspiritandhowthepresenceofitmakesthesoulofanycreaturetobeabsolutelyfearlessandindomitable?
Ihave。
Thennowwehaveaclearnotionofthebodilyqualitieswhicharerequiredintheguardian。
True。
Andalsoofthementalones;hissoulistobefullofspirit?
Yes。
Butarenotthesespiritednaturesapttobesavagewithoneanother,andwitheverybodyelse?
Adifficultybynomeanseasytoovercome,hereplied。
Whereas,Isaid,theyoughttobedangeroustotheirenemies,andgentletotheirfriends;ifnot,theywilldestroythemselveswithoutwaitingfortheirenemiestodestroythem。
True,hesaid。
Whatistobedonethen?Isaid;howshallwefindagentlenaturewhichhasalsoagreatspirit,fortheoneisthecontradictionoftheother?
True。
Hewillnotbeagoodguardianwhoiswantingineitherofthesetwoqualities;andyetthecombinationofthemappearstobeimpossible;
andhencewemustinferthattobeagoodguardianisimpossible。
Iamafraidthatwhatyousayistrue,hereplied。
HerefeelingperplexedIbegantothinkoverwhathadpreceded。Myfriend,Isaid,nowonderthatweareinaperplexity;forwehavelostsightoftheimagewhichwehadbeforeus。
Whatdoyoumean?hesaid。
Imeantosaythattheredoexistnaturesgiftedwiththoseoppositequalities。
Andwheredoyoufindthem?
Manyanimals,Ireplied,furnishexamplesofthem;ourfriendthedogisaverygoodone:youknowthatwell—breddogsareperfectlygentletotheirfamiliarsandacquaintances,andthereversetostrangers。
Yes,Iknow。
Thenthereisnothingimpossibleoroutoftheorderofnatureinourfindingaguardianwhohasasimilarcombinationofqualities?
Certainlynot。
Wouldnothewhoisfittedtobeaguardian,besidesthespiritednature,needtohavethequalitiesofaphilosopher?
Idonotapprehendyourmeaning。
ThetraitofwhichIamspeaking,Ireplied,maybealsoseeninthedog,andisremarkableintheanimal。
Whattrait?
Why,adog,wheneverheseesastranger,isangry;whenanacquaintance,hewelcomeshim,althoughtheonehasneverdonehimanyharm,northeotheranygood。Didthisneverstrikeyouascurious?
Thematterneverstruckmebefore;butIquiterecognisethetruthofyourremark。
Andsurelythisinstinctofthedogisverycharming;——yourdogisatruephilosopher。
Why?
Why,becausehedistinguishesthefaceofafriendandofanenemyonlybythecriterionofknowingandnotknowing。Andmustnotananimalbealoveroflearningwhodetermineswhathelikesanddislikesbythetestofknowledgeandignorance?
Mostassuredly。
Andisnottheloveoflearningtheloveofwisdom,whichisphilosophy?
Theyarethesame,hereplied。
Andmaywenotsayconfidentlyofmanalso,thathewhoislikelytobegentletohisfriendsandacquaintances,mustbynaturebealoverofwisdomandknowledge?
Thatwemaysafelyaffirm。
ThenhewhoistobeareallygoodandnobleguardianoftheStatewillrequiretouniteinhimselfphilosophyandspiritandswiftnessandstrength?
Undoubtedly。
Thenwehavefoundthedesirednatures;andnowthatwehavefoundthem,howaretheytoberearedandeducated?Isnotthisenquirywhichmaybeexpectedtothrowlightonthegreaterenquirywhichisourfinalend——HowdojusticeandinjusticegrowupinStates?forwedonotwanteithertoomitwhatistothepointortodrawouttheargumenttoaninconvenientlength。
SOCRATES—ADEIMANTUS
Adeimantusthoughtthattheenquirywouldbeofgreatservicetous。
Then,Isaid,mydearfriend,thetaskmustnotbegivenup,evenifsomewhatlong。
Certainlynot。
Comethen,andletuspassaleisurehourinstory—telling,andourstoryshallbetheeducationofourheroes。
Byallmeans。
Andwhatshallbetheireducation?Canwefindabetterthanthetraditionalsort?——andthishastwodivisions,gymnasticforthebody,andmusicforthesoul。
True。
Shallwebegineducationwithmusic,andgoontogymnasticafterwards?
Byallmeans。
Andwhenyouspeakofmusic,doyouincludeliteratureornot?
Ido。
Andliteraturemaybeeithertrueorfalse?
Yes。
Andtheyoungshouldbetrainedinbothkinds,andwebeginwiththefalse?
Idonotunderstandyourmeaning,hesaid。
Youknow,Isaid,thatwebeginbytellingchildrenstorieswhich,thoughnotwhollydestituteoftruth,areinthemainfictitious;
andthesestoriesaretoldthemwhentheyarenotofanagetolearngymnastics。
Verytrue。
ThatwasmymeaningwhenIsaidthatwemustteachmusicbeforegymnastics。
Quiteright,hesaid。
Youknowalsothatthebeginningisthemostimportantpartofanywork,especiallyinthecaseofayoungandtenderthing;forthatisthetimeatwhichthecharacterisbeingformedandthedesiredimpressionismorereadilytaken。
Quitetrue。
Andshallwejustcarelesslyallowchildrentohearanycasualtaleswhichmaybedevisedbycasualpersons,andtoreceiveintotheirmindsideasforthemostparttheveryoppositeofthosewhichweshouldwishthemtohavewhentheyaregrownup?
Wecannot。
Thenthefirstthingwillbetoestablishacensorshipofthewritersoffiction,andletthecensorsreceiveanytaleoffictionwhichisgood,andrejectthebad;andwewilldesiremothersandnursestotelltheirchildrentheauthorisedonesonly。Letthemfashionthemindwithsuchtales,evenmorefondlythantheymouldthebodywiththeirhands;butmostofthosewhicharenowinusemustbediscarded。
Ofwhattalesareyouspeaking?hesaid。
Youmayfindamodelofthelesserinthegreater,Isaid;fortheyarenecessarilyofthesametype,andthereisthesamespiritinbothofthem。
Verylikely,hereplied;butIdonotasyetknowwhatyouwouldtermthegreater。
Those,Isaid,whicharenarratedbyHomerandHesiod,andtherestofthepoets,whohaveeverbeenthegreatstory—tellersofmankind。
Butwhichstoriesdoyoumean,hesaid;andwhatfaultdoyoufindwiththem?
Afaultwhichismostserious,Isaid;thefaultoftellingalie,and,whatismore,abadlie。
Butwhenisthisfaultcommitted?
Wheneveranerroneousrepresentationismadeofthenatureofgodsandheroes,——aswhenapainterpaintsaportraitnothavingtheshadowofalikenesstotheoriginal。
Yes,hesaid,thatsortofthingiscertainlyveryblamable;butwhatarethestorieswhichyoumean?
Firstofall,Isaid,therewasthatgreatestofalllies,inhighplaces,whichthepoettoldaboutUranus,andwhichwasabadlietoo,——ImeanwhatHesiodsaysthatUranusdid,andhowCronusretaliatedonhim。ThedoingsofCronus,andthesufferingswhichinturnhissoninflicteduponhim,eveniftheyweretrue,oughtcertainlynottobelightlytoldtoyoungandthoughtlesspersons;ifpossible,theyhadbetterbeburiedinsilence。Butifthereisanabsolutenecessityfortheirmention,achosenfewmightheartheminamystery,andtheyshouldsacrificenotacommon[Eleusinian]pig,butsomehugeandunprocurablevictim;andthenthenumberofthehearerswillbeveryfewindeed。
Why,yes,saidhe,thosestoriesareextremelyobjectionable。
Yes,Adeimantus,theyarestoriesnottoberepeatedinourState;
theyoungmanshouldnotbetoldthatincommittingtheworstofcrimesheisfarfromdoinganythingoutrageous;andthatevenifhechastiseshisfatherwhendoeswrong,inwhatevermanner,hewillonlybefollowingtheexampleofthefirstandgreatestamongthegods。
Ientirelyagreewithyou,hesaid;inmyopinionthosestoriesarequiteunfittoberepeated。
Neither,ifwemeanourfutureguardianstoregardthehabitofquarrellingamongthemselvesasofallthingsthebasest,shouldanywordbesaidtothemofthewarsinheaven,andoftheplotsandfightingsofthegodsagainstoneanother,fortheyarenottrue。
No,weshallnevermentionthebattlesofthegiants,orletthembeembroideredongarments;andweshallbesilentabouttheinnumerableotherquarrelsofgodsandheroeswiththeirfriendsandrelatives。Iftheywouldonlybelieveuswewouldtellthemthatquarrellingisunholy,andthatneveruptothistimehastherebeenany,quarrelbetweencitizens;thisiswhatoldmenandoldwomenshouldbeginbytellingchildren;andwhentheygrowup,thepoetsalsoshouldbetoldtocomposefortheminasimilarspirit。ButthenarrativeofHephaestusbindingHerehismother,orhowonanotheroccasionZeussenthimflyingfortakingherpartwhenshewasbeingbeaten,andallthebattlesofthegodsinHomer——thesetalesmustnotbeadmittedintoourState,whethertheyaresupposedtohaveanallegoricalmeaningornot。Forayoungpersoncannotjudgewhatisallegoricalandwhatisliteral;anythingthathereceivesintohismindatthatageislikelytobecomeindelibleandunalterable;andthereforeitismostimportantthatthetaleswhichtheyoungfirsthearshouldbemodelsofvirtuousthoughts。
Thereyouareright,hereplied;butifanyoneaskswherearesuchmodelstobefoundandofwhattalesareyouspeaking——howshallweanswerhim?
Isaidtohim,YouandI,Adeimantus,atthismomentarenotpoets,butfoundersofaState:nowthefoundersofaStateoughttoknowthegeneralformsinwhichpoetsshouldcasttheirtales,andthelimitswhichmustbeobservedbythem,buttomakethetalesisnottheirbusiness。
Verytrue,hesaid;butwhataretheseformsoftheologywhichyoumean?
Somethingofthiskind,Ireplied:——Godisalwaystoberepresentedashetrulyis,whateverbethesortofpoetry,epic,lyricortragic,inwhichtherepresentationisgiven。
Right。
Andishenottrulygood?andmusthenotberepresentedassuch?
Certainly。
Andnogoodthingishurtful?
No,indeed。
Andthatwhichisnothurtfulhurtsnot?
Certainlynot。
Andthatwhichhurtsnotdoesnoevil?
No。
Andcanthatwhichdoesnoevilbeacauseofevil?
Impossible。
Andthegoodisadvantageous?
Yes。
Andthereforethecauseofwell—being?
Yes。
Itfollowsthereforethatthegoodisnotthecauseofallthings,butofthegoodonly?
Assuredly。
ThenGod,ifhebegood,isnottheauthorofallthings,asthemanyassert,butheisthecauseofafewthingsonly,andnotofmostthingsthatoccurtomen。Forfewarethegoodsofhumanlife,andmanyaretheevils,andthegoodistobeattributedtoGodalone;
oftheevilsthecausesaretobesoughtelsewhere,andnotinhim。
Thatappearstometobemosttrue,hesaid。
ThenwemustnotlistentoHomerortoanyotherpoetwhoisguiltyofthefollyofsayingthattwocasksLieatthethresholdofZeus,fulloflots,oneofgood,theotherofevillots,andthathetowhomZeusgivesamixtureofthetwoSometimesmeetswithevilfortune,atothertimeswithgood;
butthathetowhomisgiventhecupofunmingledill,Himwildhungerdriveso’erthebeauteousearth。
AndagainZeus,whoisthedispenserofgoodandeviltous。
Andifanyoneassertsthattheviolationofoathsandtreaties,whichwasreallytheworkofPandarus,wasbroughtaboutbyAtheneandZeus,orthatthestrifeandcontentionofthegodswasinstigatedbyThemisandZeus,heshallnothaveourapproval;neitherwillweallowouryoungmentohearthewordsofAeschylus,thatGodplantsguiltamongmenwhenhedesiresutterlytodestroyahouse。
AndifapoetwritesofthesufferingsofNiobe——thesubjectofthetragedyinwhichtheseiambicversesoccur——orofthehouseofPelops,oroftheTrojanwaroronanysimilartheme,eitherwemustnotpermithimtosaythatthesearetheworksofGod,oriftheyareofGod,hemustdevisesomeexplanationofthemsuchasweareseeking;hemustsaythatGoddidwhatwasjustandright,andtheywerethebetterforbeingpunished;butthatthosewhoarepunishedaremiserable,andthatGodistheauthoroftheirmisery——thepoetisnottobepermittedtosay;thoughhemaysaythatthewickedaremiserablebecausetheyrequiretobepunished,andarebenefitedbyreceivingpunishmentfromGod;butthatGodbeinggoodistheauthorofeviltoanyoneistobestrenuouslydenied,andnottobesaidorsungorheardinverseorprosebyanyonewhetheroldoryounginanywell—orderedcommonwealth。Suchafictionissuicidal,ruinous,impious。
Iagreewithyou,hereplied,andamreadytogivemyassenttothelaw。
Letthisthenbeoneofourrulesandprinciplesconcerningthegods,towhichourpoetsandreciterswillbeexpectedtoconform——thatGodisnottheauthorofallthings,butofgoodonly。
第7章