Nothingintheworld，Isaid；andifyouaresodisposedIwillaskandyoushallanswer。
　　Proceed。
　　ThenIwillrepeatthequestionwhichIaskedbefore，inorderthatourexaminationoftherelativenatureofjusticeandinjusticemaybecarriedonregularly。Astatementwasmadethatinjusticeisstrongerandmorepowerfulthanjustice，butnowjustice，havingbeenidentifiedwithwisdomandvirtue，iseasilyshowntobestrongerthaninjustice，ifinjusticeisignorance；thiscannolongerbequestionedbyanyone。ButIwanttoviewthematter，Thrasymachus，inadifferentway：Youwouldnotdenythatastatemaybeunjustandmaybeunjustlyattemptingtoenslaveotherstates，ormayhavealreadyenslavedthem，andmaybeholdingmanyoftheminsubjection？
　　True，hereplied；andIwilladdthebestandperfectlyunjuststatewillbemostlikelytodoso。
　　Iknow，Isaid，thatsuchwasyourposition；butwhatIwouldfurtherconsideris，whetherthispowerwhichispossessedbythesuperiorstatecanexistorbeexercisedwithoutjustice。
　　Ifyouarerightinyouview，andjusticeiswisdom，thenonlywithjustice；butifIamright，thenwithoutjustice。
　　Iamdelighted，Thrasymachus，toseeyounotonlynoddingassentanddissent，butmakinganswerswhicharequiteexcellent。
　　Thatisoutofcivilitytoyou，hereplied。
　　Youareverykind，Isaid；andwouldyouhavethegoodnessalsotoinformme，whetheryouthinkthatastate，oranarmy，orabandofrobbersandthieves，oranyothergangofevil—doerscouldactatalliftheyinjuredoneanother？
　　Noindeed，hesaid，theycouldnot。
　　Butiftheyabstainedfrominjuringoneanother，thentheymightacttogetherbetter？
　　Yes。
　　Andthisisbecauseinjusticecreatesdivisionsandhatredsandfighting，andjusticeimpartsharmonyandfriendship；isnotthattrue，Thrasymachus？
　　Iagree，hesaid，becauseIdonotwishtoquarrelwithyou。
　　Howgoodofyou，Isaid；butIshouldliketoknowalsowhetherinjustice，havingthistendencytoarousehatred，whereverexisting，amongslavesoramongfreemen，willnotmakethemhateoneanotherandsetthematvarianceandrenderthemincapableofcommonaction？
　　Certainly。
　　Andevenifinjusticebefoundintwoonly，willtheynotquarrelandfight，andbecomeenemiestooneanotherandtothejustTheywill。
　　Andsupposeinjusticeabidinginasingleperson，wouldyourwisdomsaythatshelosesorthatsheretainshernaturalpower？
　　Letusassumethatsheretainsherpower。
　　Yetisnotthepowerwhichinjusticeexercisesofsuchanaturethatwherevershetakesupherabode，whetherinacity，inanarmy，inafamily，orinanyotherbody，thatbodyis，tobeginwith，renderedincapableofunitedactionbyreasonofseditionanddistraction；
　　anddoesitnotbecomeitsownenemyandatvariancewithallthatopposesit，andwiththejust？Isnotthisthecase？
　　Yes，certainly。
　　Andisnotinjusticeequallyfatalwhenexistinginasingleperson；
　　inthefirstplacerenderinghimincapableofactionbecauseheisnotatunitywithhimself，andinthesecondplacemakinghimanenemytohimselfandthejust？Isnotthattrue，Thrasymachus？
　　Yes。
　　AndOmyfriend，Isaid，surelythegodsarejust？
　　Grantedthattheyare。
　　Butifso，theunjustwillbetheenemyofthegods，andthejustwillbetheirfriend？
　　Feastawayintriumph，andtakeyourfilloftheargument；Iwillnotopposeyou，lestIshoulddispleasethecompany。
　　Wellthen，proceedwithyouranswers，andletmehavetheremainderofmyrepast。Forwehavealreadyshownthatthejustareclearlywiserandbetterandablerthantheunjust，andthattheunjustareincapableofcommonaction；nayingatmore，thattospeakaswedidofmenwhoareevilactingatanytimevigorouslytogether，isnotstrictlytrue，foriftheyhadbeenperfectlyevil，theywouldhavelaidhandsupononeanother；butitisevidentthattheremusthavebeensomeremnantofjusticeinthem，whichenabledthemtocombine；iftherehadnotbeentheywouldhaveinjuredoneanotheraswellastheirvictims；theywerebuthalf——villainsintheirenterprises；forhadtheybeenwholevillains，andutterlyunjust，theywouldhavebeenutterlyincapableofaction。That，asI
　　believe，isthetruthofthematter，andnotwhatyousaidatfirst。
　　Butwhetherthejusthaveabetterandhappierlifethantheunjustisafurtherquestionwhichwealsoproposedtoconsider。Ithinkthattheyhave，andforthereasonswhichtohavegiven；butstillIshouldliketoexaminefurther，fornolightmatterisatstake，nothinglessthantheruleofhumanlife。
　　Proceed。
　　Iwillproceedbyaskingaquestion：Wouldyounotsaythatahorsehassomeend？
　　Ishould。
　　Andtheendoruseofahorseorofanythingwouldbethatwhichcouldnotbeaccomplished，ornotsowellaccomplished，byanyotherthing？
　　Idonotunderstand，hesaid。
　　Letmeexplain：Canyousee，exceptwiththeeye？
　　Certainlynot。
　　Orhear，exceptwiththeear？
　　No。
　　Thesethenmaybetrulysaidtobetheendsoftheseorgans？
　　Theymay。
　　Butyoucancutoffavine—branchwithadaggerorwithachisel，andinmanyotherways？
　　Ofcourse。
　　Andyetnotsowellaswithapruning—hookmadeforthepurpose？
　　True。
　　Maywenotsaythatthisistheendofapruning—hook？
　　Wemay。
　　ThennowIthinkyouwillhavenodifficultyinunderstandingmymeaningwhenIaskedthequestionwhethertheendofanythingwouldbethatwhichcouldnotbeaccomplished，ornotsowellaccomplished，byanyotherthing？
　　Iunderstandyourmeaning，hesaid，andassent。
　　Andthattowhichanendisappointedhasalsoanexcellence？NeedI
　　askagainwhethertheeyehasanend？
　　Ithas。
　　Andhasnottheeyeanexcellence？
　　Yes。
　　Andtheearhasanendandanexcellencealso？
　　True。
　　Andthesameistrueofallotherthings；theyhaveeachofthemanendandaspecialexcellence？
　　Thatisso。
　　Well，andcantheeyesfulfiltheirendiftheyarewantingintheirownproperexcellenceandhaveadefectinstead？
　　Howcanthey，hesaid，iftheyareblindandcannotsee？
　　Youmeantosay，iftheyhavelosttheirproperexcellence，whichissight；butIhavenotarrivedatthatpointyet。Iwouldratheraskthequestionmoregenerally，andonlyenquirewhetherthethingswhichfulfiltheirendsfulfilthembytheirownproperexcellence，andfalloffulfillingthembytheirowndefect？
　　Certainly，hereplied。
　　Imightsaythesameoftheears；whendeprivedoftheirownproperexcellencetheycannotfulfiltheirend？
　　True。
　　Andthesameobservationwillapplytoallotherthings？
　　Iagree。
　　Well；andhasnotthesoulanendwhichnothingelsecanfulfil？forexample，tosuperintendandcommandanddeliberateandthelike。Arenotthesefunctionspropertothesoul，andcantheyrightlybeassignedtoanyother？
　　Tonoother。
　　Andisnotlifetobereckonedamongtheendsofthesoul？
　　Assuredly，hesaid。
　　Andhasnotthesoulanexcellencealso？
　　Yes。
　　Andcansheorcanshenotfulfilherownendswhendeprivedofthatexcellence？
　　Shecannot。
　　Thenanevilsoulmustnecessarilybeanevilrulerandsuperintendent，andthegoodsoulagoodruler？
　　Yes，necessarily。
　　Andwehaveadmittedthatjusticeistheexcellenceofthesoul，andinjusticethedefectofthesoul？
　　Thathasbeenadmitted。
　　Thenthejustsoulandthejustmanwilllivewell，andtheunjustmanwillliveill？
　　Thatiswhatyourargumentproves。
　　Andhewholiveswellisblessedandhappy，andhewholivesillthereverseofhappy？
　　Certainly。
　　Thenthejustishappy，andtheunjustmiserable？
　　Sobeit。
　　Buthappinessandnotmiseryisprofitable。
　　Ofcourse。
　　Then，myblessedThrasymachus，injusticecanneverbemoreprofitablethanjustice。
　　Letthis，Socrates，hesaid，beyourentertainmentattheBendidea。
　　ForwhichIamindebtedtoyou，Isaid，nowthatyouhavegrowngentletowardsmeandhaveleftoffscolding。Nevertheless，Ihavenotbeenwellentertained；butthatwasmyownfaultandnotyours。Asanepicuresnatchesatasteofeverydishwhichissuccessivelybroughttotable，henothavingallowedhimselftimetoenjoytheonebefore，sohaveIgonefromonesubjecttoanotherwithouthavingdiscoveredwhatIsoughtatfirst，thenatureofjustice。I
　　leftthatenquiryandturnedawaytoconsiderwhetherjusticeisvirtueandwisdomorevilandfolly；andwhentherearoseafurtherquestionaboutthecomparativeadvantagesofjusticeandinjustice，Icouldnotrefrainfrompassingontothat。AndtheresultofthewholediscussionhasbeenthatIknownothingatall。ForIknownotwhatjusticeis，andthereforeIamnotlikelytoknowwhetheritisorisnotavirtue，norcanIsaywhetherthejustmanishappyorunhappy。
　　BOOKII
　　SOCRATES—GLAUCON
　　WITHthesewordsIwasthinkingthatIhadmadeanendofthediscussion；buttheend，intruth，provedtobeonlyabeginning。
　　ForGlaucon，whoisalwaysthemostpugnaciousofmen，wasdissatisfiedatThrasymachus’retirement；hewantedtohavethebattleout。Sohesaidtome：Socrates，doyouwishreallytopersuadeus，oronlytoseemtohavepersuadedus，thattobejustisalwaysbetterthantobeunjust？
　　Ishouldwishreallytopersuadeyou，Ireplied，ifIcould。
　　Thenyoucertainlyhavenotsucceeded。Letmeaskyounow：——Howwouldyouarrangegoods——aretherenotsomewhichwewelcomefortheirownsakes，andindependentlyoftheirconsequences，as，forexample，harmlesspleasuresandenjoyments，whichdelightusatthetime，althoughnothingfollowsfromthem？
　　Iagreeinthinkingthatthereissuchaclass，Ireplied。
　　Istherenotalsoasecondclassofgoods，suchasknowledge，sight，health，whicharedesirablenotonlyinthemselves，butalsofortheirresults？
　　Certainly，Isaid。
　　Andwouldyounotrecognizeathirdclass，suchasgymnastic，andthecareofthesick，andthephysician’sart；alsothevariouswaysofmoney—making——thesedousgoodbutweregardthemasdisagreeable；
　　andnoonewouldchoosethemfortheirownsakes，butonlyforthesakeofsomerewardorresultwhichflowsfromthem？
　　Thereis，Isaid，thisthirdclassalso。Butwhydoyouask？
　　BecauseIwanttoknowinwhichofthethreeclassesyouwouldplacejustice？
　　Inthehighestclass，Ireplied，——amongthosegoodswhichhewhowouldbehappydesiresbothfortheirownsakeandforthesakeoftheirresults。
　　Thenthemanyareofanothermind；theythinkthatjusticeistobereckonedinthetroublesomeclass，amonggoodswhicharetobepursuedforthesakeofrewardsandofreputation，butinthemselvesaredisagreeableandrathertobeavoided。
　　Iknow，Isaid，thatthisistheirmannerofthinking，andthatthiswasthethesiswhichThrasymachuswasmaintainingjustnow，whenhecensuredjusticeandpraisedinjustice。ButIamtoostupidtobeconvincedbyhim。
　　Iwish，hesaid，thatyouwouldhearmeaswellashim，andthenI
　　shallseewhetheryouandIagree。ForThrasymachusseemstome，likeasnake，tohavebeencharmedbyyourvoicesoonerthanheoughttohavebeen；buttomymindthenatureofjusticeandinjusticehavenotyetbeenmadeclear。Settingasidetheirrewardsandresults，Iwanttoknowwhattheyareinthemselves，andhowtheyinwardlyworkinthesoul。Ifyou，please，then，IwillrevivetheargumentofThrasymachus。AndfirstIwillspeakofthenatureandoriginofjusticeaccordingtothecommonviewofthem。Secondly，Iwillshowthatallmenwhopractisejusticedosoagainsttheirwill，ofnecessity，butnotasagood。Andthirdly，Iwillarguethatthereisreasoninthisview，forthelifeoftheunjustisafterallbetterfarthanthelifeofthejust——ifwhattheysayistrue，Socrates，sinceImyselfamnotoftheiropinion。ButstillIacknowledgethatI
　　amperplexedwhenIhearthevoicesofThrasymachusandmyriadsofothersdinninginmyears；and，ontheotherhand，Ihaveneveryetheardthesuperiorityofjusticetoinjusticemaintainedbyanyoneinasatisfactoryway。Iwanttohearjusticepraisedinrespectofitself；thenIshallbesatisfied，andyouarethepersonfromwhomIthinkthatIammostlikelytohearthis；andthereforeIwillpraisetheunjustlifetotheutmostofmypower，andmymannerofspeakingwillindicatethemannerinwhichIdesiretohearyoutoopraisingjusticeandcensuringinjustice。Willyousaywhetheryouapproveofmyproposal？
　　IndeedIdo；norcanIimagineanythemeaboutwhichamanofsensewouldoftenerwishtoconverse。
　　Iamdelighted，hereplied，tohearyousayso，andshallbeginbyspeaking，asIproposed，ofthenatureandoriginofjustice。
　　GLAUCON
　　Theysaythattodoinjusticeis，bynature，good；tosufferinjustice，evil；butthattheevilisgreaterthanthegood。Andsowhenmenhavebothdoneandsufferedinjusticeandhavehadexperienceofboth，notbeingabletoavoidtheoneandobtaintheother，theythinkthattheyhadbetteragreeamongthemselvestohaveneither；
　　hencethereariselawsandmutualcovenants；andthatwhichisordainedbylawistermedbythemlawfulandjust。Thistheyaffirmtobetheoriginandnatureofjustice；——itisameanorcompromise，betweenthebestofall，whichistodoinjusticeandnotbepunished，andtheworstofall，whichistosufferinjusticewithoutthepowerofretaliation；andjustice，beingatamiddlepointbetweenthetwo，istoleratednotasagood，butasthelesserevil，andhonouredbyreasonoftheinabilityofmentodoinjustice。Fornomanwhoisworthytobecalledamanwouldeversubmittosuchanagreementifhewereabletoresist；hewouldbemadifhedid。Suchisthereceivedaccount，Socrates，ofthenatureandoriginofjustice。
　　Nowthatthosewhopractisejusticedosoinvoluntarilyandbecausetheyhavenotthepowertobeunjustwillbestappearifweimaginesomethingofthiskind：havinggivenbothtothejustandtheunjustpowertodowhattheywill，letuswatchandseewhitherdesirewillleadthem；thenweshalldiscoverintheveryactthejustandunjustmantobeproceedingalongthesameroad，followingtheirinterest，whichallnaturesdeemtobetheirgood，andareonlydivertedintothepathofjusticebytheforceoflaw。ThelibertywhichwearesupposingmaybemostcompletelygiventothemintheformofsuchapowerasissaidtohavebeenpossessedbyGygestheancestorofCroesustheLydian。Accordingtothetradition，GygeswasashepherdintheserviceofthekingofLydia；therewasagreatstorm，andanearthquakemadeanopeningintheearthattheplacewherehewasfeedinghisflock。Amazedatthesight，hedescendedintotheopening，where，amongothermarvels，hebeheldahollowbrazenhorse，havingdoors，atwhichhestoopingandlookinginsawadeadbodyofstature，asappearedtohim，morethanhuman，andhavingnothingonbutagoldring；thishetookfromthefingerofthedeadandreascended。Nowtheshepherdsmettogether，accordingtocustom，thattheymightsendtheirmonthlyreportabouttheflockstotheking；intotheirassemblyhecamehavingtheringonhisfinger，andashewassittingamongthemhechancedtoturnthecolletoftheringinsidehishand，wheninstantlyhebecameinvisibletotherestofthecompanyandtheybegantospeakofhimasifhewerenolongerpresent。Hewasastonishedatthis，andagaintouchingtheringheturnedthecolletoutwardsandreappeared；hemadeseveraltrialsofthering，andalwayswiththesameresult—whenheturnedthecolletinwardshebecameinvisible，whenoutwardshereappeared。Whereuponhecontrivedtobechosenoneofthemessengerswhoweresenttothecourt；whereassoonashearrivedheseducedthequeen，andwithherhelpconspiredagainstthekingandslewhim，andtookthekingdom。Supposenowthatthereweretwosuchmagicrings，andthejustputononeofthemandtheunjusttheother；，nomancanbeimaginedtobeofsuchanironnaturethathewouldstandfastinjustice。Nomanwouldkeephishandsoffwhatwasnothisownwhenhecouldsafelytakewhathelikedoutofthemarket，orgointohousesandliewithanyoneathispleasure，orkillorreleasefromprisonwhomhewould，andinallrespectsbelikeaGodamongmen。
　　Thentheactionsofthejustwouldbeastheactionsoftheunjust；
　　theywouldbothcomeatlasttothesamepoint。Andthiswemaytrulyaffirmtobeagreatproofthatamanisjust，notwillinglyorbecausehethinksthatjusticeisanygoodtohimindividually，butofnecessity，forwhereveranyonethinksthathecansafelybeunjust，thereheisunjust。Forallmenbelieveintheirheartsthatinjusticeisfarmoreprofitabletotheindividualthanjustice，andhewhoarguesasIhavebeensupposing，willsaythattheyareright。Ifyoucouldimagineanyoneobtainingthispowerofbecominginvisible，andneverdoinganywrongortouchingwhatwasanother’s，hewouldbethoughtbythelookers—ontobeamostwretchedidiot，althoughtheywouldpraisehimtooneanother’sfaces，andkeepupappearanceswithoneanotherfromafearthattheytoomightsufferinjustice。Enoughofthis。
　　Now，ifwearetoformarealjudgmentofthelifeofthejustandunjust，wemustisolatethem；thereisnootherway；andhowistheisolationtobeeffected？Ianswer：Lettheunjustmanbeentirelyunjust，andthejustmanentirelyjust；nothingistobetakenawayfromeitherofthem，andbotharetobeperfectlyfurnishedfortheworkoftheirrespectivelives。First，lettheunjustbelikeotherdistinguishedmastersofcraft；liketheskilfulpilotorphysician，whoknowsintuitivelyhisownpowersandkeepswithintheirlimits，andwho，ifhefailsatanypoint，isabletorecoverhimself。Solettheunjustmakehisunjustattemptsintherightway，andliehiddenifhemeanstobegreatinhisinjustice（hewhoisfoundoutisnobody）：forthehighestreachofinjusticeis：tobedeemedjustwhenyouarenot。ThereforeIsaythatintheperfectlyunjustmanwemustassumethemostperfectinjustice；thereistobenodeduction，butwemustallowhim，whiledoingthemostunjustacts，tohaveacquiredthegreatestreputationforjustice。Ifhehavetakenafalsestephemustbeabletorecoverhimself；hemustbeonewhocanspeakwitheffect，ifanyofhisdeedscometolight，andwhocanforcehiswaywhereforceisrequiredhiscourageandstrength，andcommandofmoneyandfriends。Andathissideletusplacethejustmaninhisnoblenessandsimplicity，wishing，asAeschylussays，tobeandnottoseemgood。Theremustbenoseeming，forifheseemtobejusthewillbehonouredandrewarded，andthenweshallnotknowwhetherheisjustforthesakeofjusticeorforthesakeofhonoursandrewards；therefore，lethimbeclothedinjusticeonly，andhavenoothercovering；andhemustbeimaginedinastateoflifetheoppositeoftheformer。Lethimbethebestofmen，andlethimbethoughttheworst；thenhewillhavebeenputtotheproof；andweshallseewhetherhewillbeaffectedbythefearofinfamyanditsconsequences。Andlethimcontinuethustothehourofdeath；beingjustandseemingtobeunjust。Whenbothhavereachedtheuttermostextreme，theoneofjusticeandtheotherofinjustice，letjudgmentbegivenwhichofthemisthehappierofthetwo。
　　SOCRATES—GLAUCON
　　Heavens！mydearGlaucon，Isaid，howenergeticallyyoupolishthemupforthedecision，firstoneandthentheother，asiftheyweretwostatues。
　　Idomybest，hesaid。Andnowthatweknowwhattheyarelikethereisnodifficultyintracingoutthesortoflifewhichawaitseitherofthem。ThisIwillproceedtodescribe；butasyoumaythinkthedescriptionalittletoocoarse，Iaskyoutosuppose，Socrates，thatthewordswhichfollowarenotmine。——Letmeputthemintothemouthsoftheeulogistsofinjustice：Theywilltellyouthatthejustmanwhoisthoughtunjustwillbescourged，racked，bound——willhavehiseyesburntout；and，atlast，aftersufferingeverykindofevil，hewillbeimpaled：Thenhewillunderstandthatheoughttoseemonly，andnottobe，just；thewordsofAeschylusmaybemoretrulyspokenoftheunjustthanofthejust。Fortheunjustispursuingareality；hedoesnotlivewithaviewtoappearances——hewantstobereallyunjustandnottoseemonly：——
　　Hismindhasasoildeepandfertile，Outofwhichspringhisprudentcounsels。
　　Inthefirstplace，heisthoughtjust，andthereforebearsruleinthecity；hecanmarrywhomhewill，andgiveinmarriagetowhomhewill；alsohecantradeanddealwherehelikes，andalwaystohisownadvantage，becausehehasnomisgivingsaboutinjusticeandateverycontest，whetherinpublicorprivate，hegetsthebetterofhisantagonists，andgainsattheirexpense，andisrich，andoutofhisgainshecanbenefithisfriends，andharmhisenemies；moreover，hecanoffersacrifices，anddedicategiftstothegodsabundantlyandmagnificently，andcanhonourthegodsoranymanwhomhewantstohonourinafarbetterstylethanthejust，andthereforeheislikelytobedearerthantheyaretothegods。Andthus，Socrates，godsandmenaresaidtouniteinmakingthelifeoftheunjustbetterthanthelifeofthejust。
　　ADEIMANTUS—SOCRATES
　　IwasgoingtosaysomethinginanswertoGlaucon，whenAdeimantus，hisbrother，interposed：Socrates，hesaid，youdonotsupposethatthereisnothingmoretobeurged？
　　Why，whatelseisthere？Ianswered。
　　Thestrongestpointofallhasnotbeenevenmentioned，hereplied。
　　Well，then，accordingtotheproverb，’Letbrotherhelpbrother’
　　——ifhefailsinanypartdoyouassisthim；althoughImustconfessthatGlauconhasalreadysaidquiteenoughtolaymeinthedust，andtakefrommethepowerofhelpingjustice。