Cle。Thattheyshouldbeequal，my；good，sir，isimpossible。
　　Ath。Thenweoughttoproceedtosomemoreexacttrainingthananywhichhaspreceded。
　　Cle。Certainly。
　　Ath。Andmustnotthatofwhichweareinneedbetheonetowhichwewerejustnowalluding？
　　Cle。Verytrue。
　　Ath。Didwenotsaythattheworkmanorguardian，ifhebeperfectineveryrespect，oughtnotonlytobeabletoseethemanyaims，butheshouldpressonwardtotheone？thisheshouldknow，andknowing，orderallthingswithaviewtoit。
　　Cle。True。
　　Ath。Andcananyonehaveamoreexactwayofconsideringorcontemplating。anything，thanthebeingabletolookatoneideagatheredfrommanydifferentthings？
　　Cle。Perhapsnot。
　　Ath。Not“Perhapsnot，“but“Certainlynot，“mygoodsir，istherightanswer。Thereneverhasbeenatruermethodthanthisdiscoveredbyanyman。
　　Cle。Ibowtoyourauthority，Stranger；letusproceedinthewaywhichyoupropose。
　　Ath。Then，aswouldappear，wemustcompeltheguardiansofourdivinestatetoperceive，inthefirstplace，whatthatprincipleiswhichisthesameinallthefour-thesame，asweaffirm，incourageandintemperance，andinjusticeandinprudence，andwhich，beingone，wecallasweought，bythesinglenameofvirtue。Tothis，myfriends，wewill，ifyouplease，holdfast，andnotletgountilwehavesufficientlyexplainedwhatthatistowhichwearetolook，whethertoberegardedasone，orasawhole，orasboth，orinwhateverway。Arewelikelyevertobeinavirtuouscondition，ifwecannottellwhethervirtueismany，orfour，orone？Certainly，ifwetakecounselamongourselves，weshallinsomewaycontrivethatthisprinciplehasaplaceamongstus；butifyouhavemadeupyourmindthatweshouldletthematteralone，wewill。
　　Cle。Wemustnot，Stranger，bytheGodofstrangersIswearthatwemustnot，forinouropinionyouspeakmosttruly；butweshouldliketoknowhowyouwillaccomplishyourpurpose。
　　Ath。Waitalittlebeforeyouask；andletus，firstofall，bequiteagreedwithoneanotherthatthepurposehastobeaccomplished。
　　Cle。Certainly，itoughttobe，ifitcanbe。
　　Ast。Well，andaboutthegoodandthehonourable，arewetotakethesameview？Areourguardiansonlytoknowthateachofthemismany，or，alsohowandinwhatwaytheyareone？
　　Cle。Theymustconsideralsoinwhatsensetheyareone。
　　Ath。Andaretheytoconsideronly，andtobeunabletosetforthwhattheythink？
　　Cle。Certainlynot；thatwouldbethestateofaslave。
　　Ath。Andmaynotthesamebesaidofallgoodthings-thatthetrueguardiansofthelawsoughttoknowthetruthaboutthem，andtobeabletointerprettheminwords，andcarrythemoutinaction，judgingofwhatisandwhatisnotwell，accordingtonature？
　　Cle。Certainly。
　　Ath。IsnottheknowledgeoftheGodswhichwehavesetforthwithsomuchzealoneofthenoblestsortsofknowledge；-toknowthattheyare，andknowhowgreatistheirpower，asfarasinmanlies？doindeedexcusethemassofthecitizens，whoonlyfollowthevoiceofthelaws，butwerefusetoadmitasguardiansanywhodonotlabourtoobtaineverypossibleevidencethatthereisrespectingtheGods；
　　ourcityisforbiddenandnotallowedtochooseasaguardianofthelaw，ortoplaceintheselectorderofvirtue，himwhoisnotaninspiredman，andhasnotlabouredatthesethings。
　　Cle。Itiscertainlyjust，asyousay，thathewhoisindolentaboutsuchmattersorincapableshouldberejected，andthatthingshonourableshouldbeputawayfromhim。
　　Ath。AreweassuredthattherearetwothingswhichleadmentobelieveintheGods，aswehavealreadystated？
　　Cle。Whatarethey？
　　Ath。Oneistheargumentaboutthesoul，whichhasbeenalreadymentioned-thatitistheeldest，andmostdivineofallthings，towhichmotionattaininggenerationgivesperpetualexistence；theotherwasanargumentfromtheorderofthemotionofthestars，andofallthingsunderthedominionofthemindwhichorderedtheuniverse。Ifamanlookupontheworldnotlightlyorignorantly，therewasneveranyonesogodlesswhodidnotexperienceaneffectoppositetothatwhichthemanyimagine。Fortheythinkthatthosewhohandlethesemattersbythehelpofastronomy，andtheaccompanyingartsofdemonstration，maybecomegodless，becausetheysee，asfarastheycansee，thingshappeningbynecessity，andnotbyanintelligentwillaccomplishinggood。
　　Cle。Butwhatisthefact？
　　Ath。Justtheopposite，asIsaid，oftheopinionwhichonceprevailedamongmen，thatthesunandstarsarewithoutsoul。Eveninthosedaysmenwonderedaboutthem，andthatwhichisnowascertainedwasthenconjecturedbysomewhohadamoreexactknowledgeofthem-thatiftheyhadbeenthingswithoutsoul，andhadnomind，theycouldneverhavemovedwithnumericalexactnesssowonderful；andevenatthattimesomeventuredtohazardtheconjecturethatmindwastheordereroftheuniverse。Butthesesamepersonsagainmistakingthenatureofthesoul，whichtheyconceivedtobeyoungerandnotolderthanthebody，oncemoreoverturnedtheworld，orrather，Ishouldsay，themselves；forthebodieswhichtheysawmovinginheavenallappearedtobefullofstones，andearth，andmanyotherlifelesssubstances，andtothesetheyassignedthecausesofallthings。Suchstudiesgaverisetomuchatheismandperplexity，andthepoetstookoccasiontobeabusive-comparingthephilosopherstoshe-dogsutteringvainhowlings，andtalkingothernonsenseofthesamesort。Butnow，asIsaid，thecaseisreversed。
　　Cle。Howso？
　　Ath。NomancanbeatrueworshipperoftheGodswhodoesnotknowthesetwoprinciples-thatthesoulistheeldestofallthingswhichareborn，andisimmortalandrulesoverallbodies；moreover，asI
　　havenowsaidseveraltimes，hewhohasnotcontemplatedthemindofnaturewhichissaidtoexistinthestars，andgonethroughtheprevioustraining，andseentheconnectionofmusicwiththesethings，andharmonizedthemallwithlawsandinstitutions，isnotabletogiveareasonofsuchthingsashaveareason。Andhewhoisunabletoacquirethisinadditiontotheordinaryvirtuesofacitizen，canhardlybeagoodrulerofawholestate；butheshouldbethesubordinateofotherrulers。Wherefore，CleiniasandMegillus，letusconsiderwhetherwemaynotaddtoalltheotherlawswhichwehavediscussedthisfurtherone-thatthenocturnalassemblyofthemagistrates，whichhasalsosharedinthewholeschemeofeducationproposedbyus，shallbeaguardsetaccordingtolawforthesalvationofthestate。Shallweproposethis？
　　Cle。Certainly，mygoodfriend，wewillifthethingisinanydegreepossible。
　　Ath。Letusmakeacommonefforttogainsuchanobject；forItoowillgladlyshareintheattempt。OfthesemattersIhavehadmuchexperience，andhaveoftenconsideredthem，andIdaresaythatI
　　shallbeabletofindotherswhowillalsohelp。
　　Cle。Iagree，Stranger，thatweshouldproceedalongtheroadinwhichGodisguidingus；andhowwecanproceedrightlyhasnowtobeinvestigatedandexplained。
　　Ath。OMegillusandCleinias，aboutthesematterswecannotlegislatefurtheruntilthecouncilisconstituted；whenthatisdone，thenwewilldeterminewhatauthoritytheyshallhaveoftheirown；
　　buttheexplanationofhowthisisalltobeorderedwouldonlybegivenrightlyinalongdiscourse。
　　Cle。Whatdoyoumean，andwhatnewthingisthis？
　　Ath。Inthefirstplace，alistwouldhavetobemadeoutofthosewhobytheiragesandstudiesanddispositionsandhabitsarewellfittedforthedutyofaguardian。Inthenextplace，itwillnotbeeasyforthemtodiscoverthemselveswhattheyoughttolearn，orbecomethediscipleofonewhohasalreadymadethediscovery。
　　Furthermore，towritedownthetimesatwhich，andduringwhich，theyoughttoreceivetheseveralkindsofinstruction，wouldbeavainthing；forthelearnersthemselvesdonotknowwhatislearnedtoadvantageuntiltheknowledgewhichistheresultoflearninghasfoundaplaceinthesoulofeach。Andsothesedetails，althoughtheycouldnotbetrulysaidtobesecret，mightbesaidtobeincapableofbeingstatedbeforehand，becausewhenstatedtheywouldhavenomeaning。
　　Cle。Whatthenarewetodo，Stranger，underthesecircumstances？
　　Ath。Astheproverbsays，theanswerisnosecret，butopentoallofus：-Wemustriskthewholeonthechanceofthrowing，astheysay，thricesixorthriceace，andIamwillingtosharewithyouthedangerbystatingandexplainingtoyoumyviewsabouteducationandnurture，whichisthequestioncomingtothesurfaceagain。Thedangerisnotaslightorordinaryone，andIwouldadviseyou，Cleinias，inparticular，toseetothematter；forifyouorderrightlythecityoftheMagnetes，orwhatevernameGodmaygiveit，youwillobtainthegreatestglory；oratanyrateyouwillbethoughtthemostcourageousofmenintheestimationofposterity。Dearcompanions，ifthisourdivineassemblycanonlybeestablished，tothemwewillhandoverthecity；noneofthepresentcompanyoflegislators，asImaycallthem，wouldhesitateaboutthat。Andthestatewillbeperfectedandbecomeawakingreality，whichalittlewhileagoweattemptedtocreateasadreamandinideaonly，minglingtogetherreasonandmindinoneimage，inthehopethatourcitizensmightbedulymingledandrightlyeducated；andbeingeducated，anddwellinginthecitadeloftheland，mightbecomeperfectguardians，suchaswehaveneverseeninallourpreviouslife，byreasonofthesavingvirtuewhichisinthem。
　　Meg。DearCleinias，afterallthathasbeensaid，eitherwemustdetaintheStranger，andbysupplicationsandinallmannerofwaysmakehimshareinthefoundationofthecity，orwemustgiveuptheundertaking。
　　Cle。Verytrue，Megillus；andyoumustjoinwithmeindetaininghim。
　　Meg。Iwill-
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